Stetzer Interviewed Blecher: Deep Church

EdStetzer.com

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Book Interview: Deep Church with Jim Belcher

Posted: 05 Oct 2009 07:24 AM PDT

Jim Belcher is the founding and lead pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Newport Beach, California. He is co-producer of the docudrama "From Earth to Heaven: The Life and Art of Vincent Van Gogh." He is also the cofounder of the Restoring Community Conference: Integrating Social Interaction, Sacred Space and Beauty in the 21st Century, an annual conference for city officials, planners, builders and architects.

Jim's new book, Deep Church is getting a lot of attention as he works to make sense of the conflict between the emerging and traditional ends of the church while offering a "third way." Read the interview and then jump into the comments below. Jim will be with us today and will interact with your questions.

What motivated you to write Deep Church?
I was motivated to help heal the divisions in the church. As someone who has a foot in both camps, I wanted to call for an end to the rhetorical shouting match between the emerging and traditional branches of the church. This cease fire is needed to create a space for dialogue that is not super charged with distrust. My desire then was to lay out the areas we agree on before we jump to our disagreements. I wanted to eliminate some of the fear that is present about the other side of the argument and start listening to each other and possibly learning from each other.

What does the title, Deep Church, mean?
The phrase comes from an interview C.S. Lewis gave in 1952 where he talked about both the deep church and mere Christianity as the same thing. So the deep church is the mere Christian church. It is based and rooted in the Great Tradition, going back to the 4th and 5th Century creeds and confession before all the divisions took place. Others like Tom Oden have called it the rebirth of orthodoxy.

Who is Deep Church written for?
Deep Church is written for primarily four groups. First, it is for those caught in between, those who like aspects of the emerging and traditional churches but sense that there is a third way. Second it is for those who have heard about the emerging church but don't know anything about it. This is a good introduction. Next, it is for seminary students and young church planters who are formulating their own philosophy of ministry. Deep Church is a handbook for them. Finally, it is for veteran pastors who are discouraged in their ministry and need a shot in the arm--something to inspire them, give them hope and provide a road map for renewal in their own lives and churches.

For those new to the dialogue, can you tell us what the emerging Church is?
The emerging church is a diverse movement. It can't be characterized by one or two thinkers. In the book, I use your description of the three camps that make up the emerging church--the relevants, reconstructionists and revisionists. The relevants have the most in common with the traditional church, sharing much of its theology but wanting to be more contextualized. The reconstructionists share similar theology but are really interested in ecclesiology and changing the church to more represent first century Christianity. The revisionist are the ones that have challenged the traditional church's theology the most. Thus they get the most pushback from the traditional church and recieve most of the attention in the media. But as controversial as they may be, they don't represent the entire movement. I think they would agree with that statement.

Why are they unhappy with the traditional church?
If one spends any amount of time reading the literature, the blogs, and talking with those in the emerging camp, it is clear they are not happy with the traditional church. As I researched the movement I found seven protests that were common in their critique. I lay out these seven protests in my book. They are the following: 1) captivity to Enlightenment rationalism, 2) a narrow view of salvation, 3) belief before belonging, 4) uncontexualized worship, 5) ineffective preaching, 6) weak ecclesiology and 7) tribalism.

How has the emerging church critique been received by the traditional church?
Not so good. The pushback has been swift and strong. The conversation over the past 5 years has been marked by more of a shouting match than a dialogue. Lots of fear and distrust.

Can you describe how Deep Church is a third way?
My goal in the book is to listen and learn from both sides because they both have something to teach us. The way I do this in the book is to devote one chapter to each of the seven protests. I first let the emerging church explain its protest and then I give the traditional church a chance to push back. After appreciating what we can learn from both sides, I then present a third way that can get us beyond the stalemate and bring unity to both sides. My goal is unity and mission; if we are divided than we can't move out together into mission, presenting a unified front to a watching world. I use my own narrative and stories from my travels and church to tie each chapter together.

What do you hope this book accomplishes?
I hope it accomplishes three things. I hope gives people a deep passion and love for the church. Not to give up on it even though it is divided and we don't know all the answers. Second, I hope it brings unity to the Body of Christ-because without it our witness to the watching world is compromised. Finally, I hope that it inspires people to move confidently into the future, with a road map in hand, to participation in all the exciting things God is doing in his world. And what I am hearing from people and pastors on all sides of the conversation is that these four things are happening. Deep Church is really resonating with people across the theological and church spectrum. For that I am deeply grateful.